Maybe it is time to go

[Charles Cosimano]

I've been a member of the Adyar TS for over 30 years. I've seen it have its scandals and I've seen the good side of it as well. Tonight I am thinking that maybe it is time for me to leave. I am tired of the political haranguing. I am tired of the hypocrisy and now, having seen the face of what it is attracting in new members, I think that perhaps there is no longer a place for me in it or perhaps there are just people I do not want to be in the same place with.

Maybe it is time for another schism, a new Theosophical Society, one that can start afresh, holding true to the vision of the founders without the baggage that has accumulated over time, one that can jettision the jargon and fake sanskrit, one capable of dealing with the world as it is, not some Leadbeaterian fantasyland.

All I know is that tonight Theosophy is not fun any more and I am going to do something about it. Just what--I have no idea. But right now I am ready to go to war.

[Joe Fulton]

Could this curiosity be a property of our mind which has made it easier for us to adopt to our environment? If such is the case, what are the evolutionary/"spriritual" origins of this faculty...knowing the past may give some clues to the future.

[Susan Thomas]

Mikhayl, the question about why we seek the truth has always been a thorn for me. I think i have shared with you before that I don't have the burden of a questioning or seeking nature. I would love for someone to really find the reason some people seek the truth.

[Martin Euser]

@Mikhayl Von Riebon

You are confusing Leon's posting with mine.

'i take "the light of true reason" to be a purely subjective experience, and therefore lacking in any outward proof'

That's why one needs the brain-mind to formulate the objective counterpart to the "subjective" experience.
Our best scientists work like that. Science progresses through the interplay of the "subjective insight" with objective means.

As to theosophy: that provides starting points, not as dogmas, but as principles to work with and hone.

[Mikhayl Von Riebon]

"The point is always that most Western philosophers don't understand a thing about Buddhi, the light of true Reason. So, they continuously err in their judgments. Plato called that level of thinking doxa. (opinion, etc.) " thank you for your comments leon, but i would hardly agree with this. firstly i take "the light of true reason" to be a purely subjective experience, and therefore lacking in any outward proof. and thats the point for me really. pure perception is beyond all discriminating qualities, and therefore detached from making any real difference in the world except for the being who attains it. so many 'enlightened beings' have come before and we cannot really say whether they have made a shred of difference or not. what is for certain is that we still suffer and we still play around with the same old questions and politics, bickering amongst ourselves. and so what does theosophy set out to do? to end man's suffering? to enlighten him? none of these things are possible save for that man's own efforts. perhaps it is a society providing the space for man to discover and rediscover his own 'truths', free from persecution. now this is something that we can provide. theosophy is not to give answers but to promote men to find their own, but i notice this becomes hindered when we have members that choose to promote blavatsky or leadbeater, not just as starting points, but as corrective tools. that if one's views dont match the views of the founders, then their views must be wrong. for me that is the fundamental difference here.

[Charles Cosimano]

Richard, it was your article so many years ago that got me into the TS in the first place. Talk about events going full circle!

[Joe Fulton]

What an excellent, thoughtful discussion!

Why have a movement at all? Good question. To answer that, let's ask a few questions.

1) How can this movement help solve (or mitigate) the significant problems in our world and in our lives?

2) What do we do well better than anyone else?

3) How are our objectives relevant today?

4) What are the alternatives?

Let's not be afraid to think outside the box on these questions.

[Richard Ihle]

I was prompted to join this group because of your comments, Charles. Nice job. Incidentally, I put the following "epistemological gearshift" on all my Theosophically related emails and encourage everyone interested in testable, ground-breaking THEOSOPICAL PSYCHOLOGY rather than shaky, who-really-has-seen-a-Lemurian? Theosophical anthropology do the same:

Theosophy: "Intuitive knowledge or wisdom resulting from direct experience of one's Transcendent Nature."
Microcosmic Theosophy: "Practical application of intuitive knowledge or wisdom at the human level, especially psychological insights and tools for the transformation of ordinary life into extraordinary life."

Godward,

R.

[Martin Euser]

@Mikhayl
"To continue the trail of thought, and some of the questions already previously asked on the site... why have a TS at all? if we are pursuing truth, then why?"

The traditional true-false dichotomy in logic seems a bit outdated to me. There are also multivalent logics, fuzzy logic, etc. I would rather say pursue understanding or insight into the essence of things. This is not a thing of the brain-mind but of intuition, or buddhi.

"do we seek 'truth' for power? security? pleasure? perhaps there is some 'higher' purpose or drive that pushes us towards the idea of truth. what is this drive?"

Evolution of the spirit, I'd say.

" what authority do we have to determine what is truth in the first place?"

No outer authority, but inner authority: the clear awareness of buddhic perception.
Once you experience clear consciousness, you know it is from within and you know that it is as it is.
You know the essence of a situation because your psyche has become one with it.
Not something that occurs daily..


" do we feel that there are core truths that all men should abide by in order to live happily?
Noone lives happily all the time - this is impossible in real life. The pairs of opposites always work, one can learn to be not overwhelmed by them. Core truths? I think so, as "laws" or patterns manifesting through the divine worlds. The seven "jewels" of wisdom can certainly be considered core truths as far as we understand these.
It is not the end of wisdom, of course. Always more to discover.


" how do we define or identify what these core truths are?"
See above reply.

"(coincidentally) looking into Humanism vs post structuralism, i seem to notice that the Grand narratives that the TS was setup on in the first place are now under scrutiny. our purpose is no longer felt as valid, and without that we have no reason to continue on. any one else have any comments?"

Post-modernism is already on its return, I believe. It will destroy itself. Extreme relativism such as "all is but relative", means that such "philosophies" as post-modernism are but relative too. It negates itself. Philosophers are beginning to understand this slowly, I believe.

The point is always that most Western philosophers don't understand a thing about Buddhi, the light of true Reason. So, they continuously err in their judgments. Plato called that level of thinking doxa. (opinion, etc.)

[Mikhayl Von Riebon]

To continue the trail of thought, and some of the questions already previously asked on the site... why have a TS at all? if we are pursuing truth, then why? do we seek 'truth' for power? security? pleasure? perhaps there is some 'higher' purpose or drive that pushes us towards the idea of truth. what is this drive? what authority do we have to determine what is truth in the first place? do we feel that there are core truths that all men should abide by in order to live happily? how do we define or identify what these core truths are? (coincidentally) looking into Humanism vs post structuralism, i seem to notice that the Grand narratives that the TS was setup on in the first place are now under scrutiny. our purpose is no longer felt as valid, and without that we have no reason to continue on. any one else have any comments?

[Joe Fulton]

We have some interesting ideas. Unlike most spiritual organizations, the Objectives of the TS (and by extrapolation, the entire movement) make us one of inquiry.

That is our uniqueness. HPB said some interesting things and pointed us at some ideas in ancient literature that are great food for thought, not only for us, but for our world as a whole. Once we get over the collective delusion that we have some teaching perhaps we can start bringing about change by asking the right questions.

Let's fire the imagination! Just imagine a Theosophical movement with the likes of JJ Abrams and others of like mind.