Hello,
Is it Theosophy that has to change or how we present it? I would like nothing more to see it added to curricula in higher education. When I taught Western Civilization, Philosophy, even American History; you bet Theosophy was part of it even though it was never touched upon in the text.When I taught Ethics; and explained it as Latin/Roman translation of the Greek Moral Philosophy; I always presented the lack of ethics in the kind of education that makes up Liberal studies; Theosophy for example.
Sincerely,
Peter
Dear Susan,
I read your post again (albeit slower) I agree very much. Firstly, there are many ways to teach morality; by example, through history and philosophy, making a conscious effort to stop diluting ethics (in government as well as in academia), without acknowledging it's Roman source being taken from Greek Moral philosophy.
We have a hard enough time keeping a check on morality in government and specifically the Legislative branch; who is too quick to run roughshod over the Founder's principles of morality in Government. Please see Washington's Farewell Address, The Founders were clearly guided by Ethics. The moral and political stability that was colonial America was one nurtured by ideas of active citizenship, social progress, religious and philosophical ethics, See a comparison of Socrates and Jesus as guides of ethical behavior for America's Founders in Carl J. Richard, The Founders and the Classics, Greece, Rome, and the American Enlightenment, (Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1994), ibid., 186, 189, 191-192.
However, progress for the sake of progress, unplanned and unguided by wisdom or morality (which is ethics), is not the social progress that America's Founders believed in. See “The Stoic conception of human nature, which exerted a profound influence upon the founders’ favorite Roman statesmen and historians, held the potential for human progress.” Ibid., 239. “They [the founding fathers] spoke confidently of social progress,” Ibid., 180
In a citizenry where it's Founders held independent thought and action* in high esteem; are we really confident enough in this political economy to give free reign to the Scientific Community? I think not.
*“Although the founders considered the classics an important source of enlightenment, they understood that the highest expression of classical virtue was independence of thought and action,” Ibid., 230
Sincerely,
Peter O.
Susan Thomas said:
I agree, mostly, with what you said. However, wording aside, as entities, science and religion have a gap between them. Not so much between science and religion, but science and morality. Back in the 70's we used to say that "You can't legislate morality." In today's scientific world, we (any decent moral human beings, some of whom may be theosophists) have an imperative to state our moral positions on genetics, bio-engineering and other scientific projects to which Joe and others refer in other threads. Blavatsky says that back in the day (Lemuria and Atlantis) scientists or inventors or gods or whatever you want to call them, were not able to create living creatures unless they were willing to enter those creatures and ensoul them themselves. She also refers to Mary Wollstonecraft's Frankenstein as being a possibility.
Going out on a very precarious limb here, I have to admit that I have one very vivid memory of an experiment that resulted in a life form, (which still exists today) The sheer terror of what was happening surrounding that memory and that experience is a powerful motivator for me in this arena. It is ABSOLUTELY MORALLY WRONG for scientists to do what they are doing today. (See monkeys with green glowing feet as an example) It is one thing to play around with genetics that give monkeys green glowing feet, whereas it is a whole other ball game that those genetics were passed to offspring. And I do not have the skills to translate what I know into any meaningful dialogue that would encourage any scientist to give up his/her grant money on moral grounds. My plea here is for people who are motivated to help in this dilemma.
If there was any way to express what I know and make it have the power of what I feel, I would do it.
One cannot but agree with point no. 1, except that it may apply to theosophists too.
Hinduism found Dharma in killing, even the near and dear ones, even those with whom one had no personal issues, through Lord Krsihna's teachings to Prince Arjuna. Yet Gautam Buddha preached Ahimsa. How to reconcile the two positions? When criticizing the Roman Catholic Church, the materialists or the scientists, whose side the theospohists are on - Krishna's or Buddha's?
More than any other thought system, the Theosophists claim to know of the Evolution and the Divine Plan. Do they believe that the current developments in the Genetic Engineering is outside this plan - not approved by the Sanatkumaras of the universe? Is that feasible?
History teaches us that Evolution comes at a price. Certain life-forms are eliminated and others are transformed. This is what Genetic Scientists are doing. If human beings have to exist outside of the limits of the physical bodies someday, then we have to pay the price today in the form of all the horrors that is described.
More than this understanding, I see the political principle of POWERSHIFT at work here. Most of us will happily accept "Miracles", in the form of of a person healing others with touch, materializing or moving objects out of thin air and all other countless starnge phenomena. We may even call these people Divine or Spiritualists. But what scientists are doing is to give this power to the people. And that is why there is so much of opposition to it. Biotechnology is a direct challenge to the concept of a GOD and its AGENTS. It is only natural that those who derive their "Power" from such concepts, oppose it. But can they stop it?
The only alternative for the Theosophists, if they do not change, is to perish. Are they up to it?
Please forgive if the words appear to be too harsh.The nature of theosophies lends themselves to being timeless. Therefore the issue has to be one of expression.
The specific theosophy that most of us find common, that of the tradition identified with Blavatsky has become a caricature of the word theosophy, a mish mash of mythologies involving mythical superhuman masters, founders who need protection from enemies and detractors and all kinds of other garbage ideas clinging on to the kernel of divine wisdom.
What we have to get back to is the ideas, their value and their application. More importantly we have to make those our own, not someone elses. When we start doing this the wisdom will become one that we can share, not as a relic of the Victorian world, but as a guide into an uncertain future.
Joe, Do you think "mythical superhuman masters" is a garbage idea? Or that many critics think that is so?
Even if the latter is the meaning, where do you think these "ideas, their value and their application" came from? From those Masters and Their greater Masters and so up the Golden Chain.
The notion of Masters need not be up front all the time or even much, but they cannot be tossed aside by theosophists because they are considered a "garbage idea" by anyone.
Joe Fulton said:
The nature of theosophies lends themselves to being timeless. Therefore the issue has to be one of expression.
The specific theosophy that most of us find common, that of the tradition identified with Blavatsky has become a caricature of the word theosophy, a mish mash of mythologies involving mythical superhuman masters, founders who need protection from enemies and detractors and all kinds of other garbage ideas clinging on to the kernel of divine wisdom.
What we have to get back to is the ideas, their value and their application. More importantly we have to make those our own, not someone elses. When we start doing this the wisdom will become one that we can share, not as a relic of the Victorian world, but as a guide into an uncertain future.
Yes, Nicholas, for this time, place and circumstance I most certainly do. The whole idea has led to dysfunctional theosophical organizations more obsessed with making contacts with such beings than doing any practical good. It's just another flavor of astral intoxication.
So yes, sorry, but for the effect that the Theosophical mythology (as given in official histories) has perpetuated, it is a garbage idea. We need to concentrate on the ideas and not the esoteric boogeymen. Whoever wrote the 1900 Letter to Besant had it right, "the cant about masters must be quietly but firmly put down." This whole tradition is dying because of an obsession with the HPB / Masters mythology. This is a different issue than taking the highest wisdom that has been given to us by the wise ones of all ages and encouraging people to apply it to their lives and this world for the betterment of all.
In short, I am opposed to theosophical fundamentalism in any form. The tradition of the "save the poor HPB, Judge, etc." is plain crazy and there is no other, better way of putting it. We have people here who are making a difference today, combining the highest wisdom and following their own lights without the reliance on masters, imaginary or otherwise. They are doing the right things for their own sakes, which is the highest calling of all, otherwise known as "Service to that Supreme Spirit alone".
It is time to get out of this Victorian rabbit h*** and join the rest of us in the 21st Century.
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