Where are the Masters?

[Joe Fulton]

Great question.  Who cares?  Their existence (or lack thereof) is of no importance.

We need to stand on our own and look for truth in the things that can be proven and not in the realm of useless speculation.

Perhaps if we lived be best lives that we could, loved wisdom for its own sake and treated others as a reflection of ourselves, we wouldn't need to be concerned with such useless matters.

When that day arrives we will regard such silliness as chasing after mahatmas, gurus, masters, etc. the way we react to the idea of eating rocks.

[William John Meegan]

That line about eating rock equating to searching for ancient masters is a good one because it says it all in relationship to the quest; however having said that, within the psyche of man  is the addictive unreasonable belief that there is someone out there that can give us the answer we search for.  Of course this belief is pounded into us from birth: go to the expert: THE EXPERTS HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS?  What an oxymoran that is!!!!!

 

I myself have found over the past three decades that it would be unique if you found someone that you could past your knowledge on to; that is not an option - knowledge cannot be past on from one individual or one generation to another.  Yes, you can point out our school systems and home schooling; however, teaching hard core base sciences to someone with a 'careless' attitude is not going to advance that science an iota once he is free of your  dominance.  Examples of this is the masses free from school rarely reads books.  Only about ten percent of the population reads on a regular basis and much of that is reading trashy novels.  The science of math is rarely used outside of a commercial use.  How may people actually own a bible?  Almost everyone does.  Yet, ask how many of that group have actually read it.  You will probably have to take an inch of dust off of it just to remove it from one shelf to another.

 

CG Jung the great psychoanalyst was searching for the reasons that man is incapable of passing on his knowledge  from one generation to another - he died before he could come to an concrete conclusions.

 

I believe that the search for God: eternal spiritual laws, is a one on one relationship with the universe.  That universe is a jealous god and will not have any other gods before it.

 

The so-called ancient masters must have realized the fruitlessness of educating the masses into the esoteric tradition because they knew how difficult the task of learning it was.  So they did the next best thing and gave  to us  their wisdom and knowledge of the transcendent in their esoteric literature, art and monuments and then disappeared into oblivion.

 

If you read the New Testament closely you will see Christ was constantly setting an example: "give not that which is holy onto dogs less they turn and rend you, rather, be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." and again he would only bring some of his disciples into the mountain, which is symbolic to high metaphysical though.

[Joe Fulton]

Good day, Mr. Meegan!

The other part of the equation is this innate part of our being that aspires to something better.  We seek in books, objects and other people.  Occasionally in a culture one or more individuals arise who inspire this sense of aspiration among others.  We should not underestimate this as it can move mountains.  The words of a wise person can wrought change unimaginable by others without that higher vision.

How we handle these aspirations and their placement is purely an individual matter.  What works for you may be totally poison for me.  In Hinduism this is why there any number of approaches, i.e. Jnana Yoga (study), Bhakti (devoltion), raja (concentration), etc. 

I think that what is said about seeking experts is especially true in today's world.  It's a conundrum.  On one hand we are taught to do our own journey and on the other there is just way too much information/knowledge for any of us to have but the tiniest sliver of the whole picture.  I don't have an answer on how to deal with that, but it certainly does concern me, especially as specialization becomes more and more prevalent.

Always more and more questions and the answers just lead to more questions <grins>.

[William John Meegan]

Good day, Joe!

 

That little imp that is inside of those of us that are willing to cross the margins of the world for something better is what drives the quest for the the Holy Grail.  Yes, there are other ways from one extreme of the pendulum to the other and there is a horrendous ache in the soul that refuses to let us leave our fellow man  behind and it is a lesson hard to learned that it is impossible to carry another upon our shoulders: we never stop seeking methods that will make the esoteric science so readily available to the uninitiate.  It is literally in tears that we must drag ourselves away and listen to the voice of the universe "all is right - no one is ever left behind - they all are in caring hands - 'let the dead bury the dead - come follow me'" says CHRIST.

[David Melik]

That is an interesting question... is this the right thread to ask for references of wherever Madame Blavatsky said the Masters were other people and the reference of who they actually might have been? Joe once said people have said they were Sikhs, which to me is no evidence they were not Masters... and I have not come across info of those other ideas like what Madame Blavatsky said about them and who they might have been.

[William John Meegan]

I think that Joe's first post in this thread; "Where are the Masters" is quite apt and central to the discussion.

I believe that if you have that question in mind you are a neophyte that does not understand that there are no MASTERS but God: universal law.

Let us say that you traverse the whole world and then found such a person.  What could he tell you that you cannot find out for yourself?  Man is an incredibly lazy being.  He is willing to build great civilizations and embark upon hugh projects but to get the individual to look at himself is asking more than death itself. A person would rather go to war and loose his life rather than search the darkness of his own soul.

Being a good person and doing the best you can within the rules of the civilization you live in IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  Mary Baker Eddy, the discoverer and founder of Christian Science was such a person.  She read the bible from childhood and when to church every week including bible classes and still she did not undersand a word of bible (though she initially thought she did) until she slip on ice and was a hair's breathe away from death at the age of fourty-five.  Suddenly on her death beath she asked for a bible and other people in the house waited outside of her death room while she read the bible: they were waiting for her to die - incrediblY she walked out of that room into history - fully healed of her injury and she would create a worldwide Christian sect in the second half of her life.  She published her first book in the year Madame Blavasky published hers: 1875 - The same year Carl Jung was born.

You want MASTERS read the works of Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Campbell, Carl G. Jung and a host of others but most important think about what you read: THAT IS 90% OF WHAT READING IS ALL ABOUT.  Do not take another's word at face value and then live your life creating your own techniques in developing knowledge of the universe

If you want physical MASTERS you will have a long wait.  I think searching for the MASTERS is the sleight of hand that was invented in mythological lare to give the neophytes something to do on their way to realizing that they ultimately are the voices they has been waiting to hear: individually each is the MASTER in his or her own way.

I don't believe there were any MASTERS per se that were or are available for the slothful.  The only MASTER is the universe itself.  I remember reading in Plato that the requirements for his school were that the inidividual had to have knowledge of the higher mathematics and philosophy and several other sciences.  So the  individual had to have the capacity to see behind the mundane.  I understand that the gurus of India only answer questions.  In other words they give you only what the individula need to know or at least their version of it.

If there are MASTERS they can only tell you haw they developed the techniques that enabled them to grasp the truths of reality.  THEY CAN NOT DO THE INTROVERTED WORK THAT YOU MUST DO FOR YOURSELF.  The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink" is quite appropriate here.

 

[K. Paul Johnson]

Hi David.  There is such confusion about the phrase "the Masters" that I think it more productive to break the question down into three.  Who were the Theosophical adepts?  Who were the Theosophical Mahatmas?  Who were HPB's contacts in Tibet?  Giving three very different answers to those distinct questions was confusing among certain believers who merged those three questions into one sacred mystery not to be touched by profane hands.  They're three different historical mysteries-- each of which I'd be happy to elucidate as best I can.  Portions of each of the three parts of The Masters Revealed are viewable on Google books.  Katinka Eclectic Theosophical History page has much info about reactions pro and con.

We might need to move this discussion and impose certain guidelines, that we focus on historical and not religious questions.  "Who's holier and more irreproachable than whom?" is a preoccupation that seems to arise with this Masters question, and it's fatal to honest history discussion.  Each case requires sorting out fact from fiction; if one assumes either that HPB never lied about the Masters or never told the truth about them, the inquiry goes nowhere.  Up to my neck right now in Emma's facto-fictional world of adepts in Ghost Land, I'm reminded again of the necessity of never assuming one way or the other how "real" a character or episode is.

Morya was described as a Rajput and his alter ego in Caves and Jungles (whom HPB clearly ID'd in a letter as being Morya) was called Gulab Singh.  K.H. refers to himself (implicitly) as a Punjabi Singh, and definitely claims the Singh name.  Not all Singhs are Sikhs, but all male Sikhs are Singhs, hence some confusion. 

[K. Paul Johnson]

Thanks for this comment, with which I agree.  Just wanted to add that Science and Health was largely revised with the assistance of James Wiggin, one of the TS Founders who only lasted a few months before resigning.

William John Meegan said:

I think that Joe's first post in this thread; "Where are the Masters" is quite apt and central to the discussion.

I believe that if you have that question in mind you are a neophyte that does not understand that there are no MASTERS but God: universal law.

Let us say that you traverse the whole world and then found such a person.  What could he tell you that you cannot find out for yourself?  Man is an incredibly lazy being.  He is willing to build great civilizations and embark upon hugh projects but to get the individual to look at himself is asking more than death itself. A person would rather go to war and loose his life rather than search the darkness of his own soul.

Being a good person and doing the best you can within the rules of the civilization you live in IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  Mary Baker Eddy, the discoverer and founder of Christian Science was such a person.  She read the bible from childhood and when to church every week including bible classes and still she did not undersand a word of bible (though she initially thought she did) until she slip on ice and was a hair's breathe away from death at the age of fourty-five.  Suddenly on her death beath she asked for a bible and other people in the house waited outside of her death room while she read the bible: they were waiting for her to die - incrediblY she walked out of that room into history - fully healed of her injury and she would create a worldwide Christian sect in the second half of her life.  She published her first book in the year Madame Blavasky published hers: 1875 - The same year Carl Jung was born.

You want MASTERS read the works of Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Campbell, Carl G. Jung and a host of others but most important think about what you read: THAT IS 90% OF WHAT READING IS ALL ABOUT.  Do not take another's word at face value and then live your life creating your own techniques in developing knowledge of the universe

If you want physical MASTERS you will have a long wait.  I think searching for the MASTERS is the sleight of hand that was invented in mythological lare to give the neophytes something to do on their way to realizing that they ultimately are the voices they has been waiting to hear: individually each is the MASTER in his or her own way.

I don't believe there were any MASTERS per se that were or are available for the slothful.  The only MASTER is the universe itself.  I remember reading in Plato that the requirements for his school were that the inidividual had to have knowledge of the higher mathematics and philosophy and several other sciences.  So the  individual had to have the capacity to see behind the mundane.  I understand that the gurus of India only answer questions.  In other words they give you only what the individula need to know or at least their version of it.

If there are MASTERS they can only tell you haw they developed the techniques that enabled them to grasp the truths of reality.  THEY CAN NOT DO THE INTROVERTED WORK THAT YOU MUST DO FOR YOURSELF.  The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink" is quite appropriate here.