Questions...About Us

[Joe Fulton]

This is the first of a two-part discussion.  Essentially these discussions are about the same thing.  Us and how we relate to our world, what is and isn't important. The second part (in another posting) relates to your activity here. 

There are two themes in each of these sets of questions.  The first is one of "How do I portray myself" to the world and to me?  The second is ways that we feel we could do better.  These are both fairly high risk questions in that we are telling everyone else out there about our interior lives and we are dealing more with feelings than opinion.

This second discussion is about us.  How do you feel about our work and what are your thoughts?

Given the above, here are a couple short questions:

1. What do I feel that esoteric traditions have to offer to today's world of practical use?  What should 'they' be saying to a larger audience?
2. What practical role can we play collectively in making this world a better place to live?  What should we do?  How can we do it effectively?

Thanks much in advance and I hope that we have a really good discussion as a result.

[David Reigle]

1. "What do I feel that esoteric traditions have to offer to today's world of practical use?  What should 'they' be saying to a larger audience?"

To me, ideas that help us make sense of the world are very much of practical use. They do not have to make our car run better, for example, to be of practical use. Our outlook on life helps us to ourselves be happy, and therefore to spread kindness to others. This makes our world a better place to live in for everyone.

Heidi said in the last radio program that when she read Isis Unveiled, she wondered why we were not given these ideas in our educational system. This implies that she found these ideas to be very helpful. I would be interested in hearing Heidi and others say which Theosophical or spiritual ideas attracted them or were particularly helpful to them. Probably for everyone on this site there are some of these ideas that are especially valuable.

So why does only a tiny percentage of the population of the world ever hear of the specific body of teachings that were brought out by H. P. Blavatsky under the name Theosophy? I think that this is due to the success of her detractors in undermining the credibility of her and of these teachings. Among those who have even heard of HPB and Theosophy, the majority regard her as an impostor and a fraud, and Theosophy as a fantasy. This has effectively precluded it from entering serious discourse in academia, and this has in turn stopped it from entering our educational system.

2. "What practical role can we play collectively in making this world a better place to live?  What should we do?  How can we do it effectively?"

Each person must do what he or she sees as a need to be addressed, and what he or she feels capable of doing. Here is the way I see it, and what I have chosen to work toward. All the arguments in the world have failed to overcome the prejudice toward Theosophical ideas that keep them from being accepted in the world. It will take something irrefutable to cause people to listen, something like the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. That is why I have chosen to work toward the coming out of an original language text of the Book of Dzyan.

So whatever it is among the ideas of Theosophy that has attracted any of us to it, whether it be the brotherhood of humanity, the unity of the world's core religious and philosophical ideas, the explanation of otherwise inexplicable super-physical experiences, the larger worldview that extends to super-physical realms, the idea of attainable human perfection, the twin teachings of karma or human responsibility for our actions and reincarnation or cycles that allow us to come back and keep improving, or whether it be anything else, it is today being heard by only a tiny minority. I hope that everyone to whom some of these ideas are important will look with sympathy upon the search for the Stanzas of Dzyan, even if you have no particular interest in the Stanzas. The discovery of a manuscript of the Book of Dzyan may be the ticket that opens the way to making these ideas much more widely available in the world, and could even bring them in to our educational system.

[Michael A. Williams]

I would put Theosophy as one of a number of generally valid approaches to Esoteric Wisdom. There's a whole gamut of them out there, and we need not go through them all for the readership here. In my view, there should be no proselytizing of the Mystery School wisdom traditions, only putting out an open door to all who are drawn to them. Each of us will find the path that is right for us, in the West or the East, and usually drawing from both. Trying to "convert" people will be counter-productive.

But, in actuality, only a few will be motivated to go into the deeper esoteric waters. Most drawn to metaphysical and spiritual matters will stick with the more exoteric models, and that's fine for them.

As for what benefits are there in the esoteric traditions, I'd say that for anyone who really "soaks" in the wisdom and understanding that is offered, fears and doubts melt away, expecially that of death. This would naturally emanate over into one's day-to-day life, bringing about a more positive, "can-do" attitude to the mundane challenges one seems to be continually faced with.

 

How do we make the world a better place? That's the 10 billion dollar question. I can only say that for those who are motivated to take practical action, there's as plethora  of groups and organizations, from eliminating hunger and poverty projects, to ecological, to human and animal rights, social justice, to bringing about more tolerance in the world, to science and ethics(a recent hot topic here) to you name-it. So, I don't see much necessity, most of the time, to "re-invent the wheel" in this regard. Whatever one's interest in serving and helping, just search engine the topic and 100's, if not 1000's, of groups and organizations will pop up to choose from.

On the other hand, I'm always suspicious of various "movements to save the world." For one reason, there's all sorts of competing views on just how to "put the world aright." There's no way everyone will be satisfied.

And, how many times have we witnessed first hand, or from afar, the "movers-and-shakers" of groups and organizations of lofty goals being unmasked. We find that their personal lives are in hypocritical disarray and when not in the public eye, are not very kind people.

I think our day-to-day treatment of others, especially in tense and chaotic situations, is of immense importance. Gandhi  perhaps said it best:

"We must become the change we want to see in the world." Gandhi

 

[Capt. Anand Kumar]

Amongst the chief reasons for the inability of Theosophy to become popular is that it strayed from its core value of UNITY of all beings. It was reflected in its scathing attack on Christian Church and that created a backlash from which it is still to recover. One wonders why the Theosophists were so sympathetic towards Hinduism which even today is more dogmatic, superstitious and intolerant. The other important factor has been that although HPB included science in the Theosophy, many Theosophists continue to ridicule it, without coming up with anything that would validate their claims. If clairvoyance is science, give us the mathematics of it and we will believe you. If HPB, or the Mahatmas or others take the position that we can only tell you this much because the rest is secret or we are sworn to secrecy, what can an average person make of it.

 

Therefore, in my opinion, the way forward is twofold. "Responsible Living", based on UNITY principle and investment in education. Finally it is education that will allow the people to see the truth for what it is. Or, even lead them to it. As long as we ask people to 'believe' in whatever we are saying, we would be competing against other beliefs and the energies will get directed towards that 'competition'.

 

And unless one lives the UNITY principle, there is little hope of convincing others. The great teachers like Gautam Budha or Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi and many others did so and transformed the lives of millions.

 

My apologies to those Theosophists whose 'beliefs' may have been hurt by the above words.

[Joe Fulton]

Capt. Kumar, that is as thoughtful an analysis as I have seen in quite a while. It is a challenging response, but one that is based in sound logic.

Far from being hurt, your words are most edifying.

The root of this is philosophical and, more importantly involves how we incorporate our philosophies into our lives. The philosophy that we live (not necessarily profess) is shown in our actual words and actions.

[Capt. Anand Kumar]

Thanks Joe. You are most kind with your words.

 

But the real credit is due to David Reigle who introduced this forum to the priceless work, "Pranava Vada" and its principle of relation of negation. The book states, "energy of virodha, contradiction, opposition is Daiviprakriti". I have simplified it for my own understanding to mean that whenever there is opposition (non UNITY) a force called Daiviprakriti will be generated. It is perhaps this force that has brought Humanity in general and the TS in particular to the state each finds itself in.

 

But I also thought that nature cannot just create Daiviprakriti. It has to have something to balance it. This quest led me to a little known (in the west, but extremely popular amongst the Hindi speaking population of India) poet called Kabir. Kabir spoke of love. In fact many credit him as the first Sufi poet. He led a very interesting life. The entire Sufi tradition, as is well known, is based on exploration of love. So, I deduced that it is only LOVE that can counter the effects of Daiviprakriti. Love unites. That is UNITY principle. Moment UNITY is achieved, Daiviprakriti will disappear.

 

When one looks at the great historical figures and their achievements, it is not difficult to see the UNITY principle in operation.

 

Thank You David. 

Joe Fulton said:

Capt. Kumar, that is as thoughtful an analysis as I have seen in quite a while. It is a challenging response, but one that is based in sound logic.

Far from being hurt, your words are most edifying.

The root of this is philosophical and, more importantly involves how we incorporate our philosophies into our lives. The philosophy that we live (not necessarily profess) is shown in our actual words and actions.