Mixed thoughts about Crowley?

[Lady Line]

Hello dear "theosophical friends"!

I must say that I'm researching about various subjects related with Blavatsky, Theosophy, Secret Societies, etc... But the name of Aleister Crowley continues to appear everywhere, and in every place it is mentioned, there are mixed thoughts like saying he was a great man and enlightened being, to saying he was the worst black magician of all times. 

I've heard that he was folowing the steps of Societies like Golden Dawn and after that got into black magic.

What do you think about Crowley? Was he indeed someone to mantain distance or just someone that was unbalanced at times? And what are your thoughts about his religion Thelema?

 

Thank you for your attention!

[Joe Fulton]

Crowley is an interesting character.  I've been giving some thought towards inviting some OTO folk here as they are part of the same overall movement that theosophy came out of and several of the founders were students or associates of Blavatsky at one time of another.  Most notable in the tradition is Franz Hartmann (one of the founders of OTO) who was very "action oriented" vs. the highly theoretical approach of the Theosophists.

Crowley himself seemed to be troubled and the stories and sayings about him are many and controversial.  Perhaps it is going too far to give epithets like "most evil man in the world".  I can think of a number of folk, even contemporary to Crowley who make the stories about him look pretty tame.

Maybe in his case, as with the rest of the OTO tradition it's a matter of finding the kernels of truth in all places, good and foul.

[Michael A. Williams]

Aleister Crowley(1875 - 1947) was inarguable the most influencial Western Occultist of the 20th Century. In so far as inspiring people to seriously look into and study Hermeticism, Magick and Western esotericism in general. I think in large part because of his Spiritual, Magickal, and Sexual adventurism.

He had a very keen intellect, rebeled against a strick fundamentalist Christian upbringing, and inherited a fairly large fortune and used it, and dissipated it, in traveling and exploring all sorts of groups, philosophies, and locales. The image of him in his prime years of a "spiritual Rebel" and "occult swashbuckler" of sorts has moved many to follow suit.

The label "most wicked man in the world" came from a headline in a prominent British scandal magazine of his time, JOHN BULL. It was based on what has now been verified to be totally false and exaggerated claims of wrong doing. Crowley, being a master "self publicist," reveled in this gossip and even encouraged it at times.

Joe's right, he was imbalanced and his drug addictions and extreme sexual promiscuity at times is not to emulated. But, who isn't imbalanced in some areas in their lives. A good case could be made against Blavatsky herself, thought imbalanced in a different way.

As for his being "enlightened," there are strong indications he certainly had  a number of classical "enlightenment" experiences, but didn't abide or stay in these spaces as his normal baseline consciousness. There's so much about him, he had so many aspects, he was certainly a "mixed bag." Here's a web page with some interesting essays about him that might interest you:

http://tim.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/index.html

From what I've heard through a reliable source, you might be best off steering clear of any official O.T.O. or Crowley or Thelema group. They tend to be a philosophy without much heart or compassion and there is a dogmatic approach to Crowley as the final authority.

If I may suggest, you should look into the Occultist Dion Fortune, an contemporary of Crowley. She is much more balanced and her writings are very approachable and readable. She was a member of the Theosophical Society and a descendant organization of the Golden Dawn,  Alpha et Omega. Two of her novels were very influential to Doreen Valiente, an early associate co-founder with Gerald Gardner of the Wicca movement, of which you asked about earlier.

[Joe Fulton]

Honestly, I have little fear of and am not prone to steer away from OTO or any other organization or related groups / individuals participating here.  Every member is subject to our "Rules of the Road" and they will be enforced fairly but firmly on those who impose anti-social behaviors on the rest of us.

Dion Fortune's writings are extremely good material for those who are getting started (and for those who have been around a while).  She is full of practical suggestions on how to deal with all kinds of situations.

My first talk to an outside group was to a Wicca group in 1986.  Back then the message was motive and you know what, it still is.  If we could make connections with any of these groups it may be quite interesting.  I know that we have a discussion going now about theosophy & wicca.

[Michael A. Williams]

Joe, I didn't mean to imply any fear on your part in regards to the O.T.O. or any other group. It was a bad choice of words. Thanks for providing an opportunity to set the record straight.

[Joe Fulton]

No problem.  I'm glad that you brought it up the way you did.  There are a lot of people who may view theosophy.net from other perspectives wondering how open we are various points of view.

It was the perfect opportunity to make it clear that we welcome all comers and that we expect them to be good guests and good hosts.  That's not too much to ask.

Frankly the only way that theosophy comes alive is for it to become as a prism, examining the same fundamental wisdom from many different perspectives.  It's a lot more work than quoting from the same books over and over again, but the hope is that the experience will be greatly more rewarding for everyone.

[Mark Worthington]

Crowley was also, according to his own biography, a Chess Master and expert mountain climber. Yes, a very interesting character.

What interests me, besides his life, is Ceremonial Magick, which the Golden Dawn order did and perhaps continues to excel. It is probably the oldest method of consciousness changers from  Shamanism to the present day, the Roman Catholic mass. All religions have a form of it and probably it could be pointed at in historic and current government trappings.

Also a good ex.   Thule Group/SS/Nazi escapades, that Crowley and others magickally fought to put the genii back in the bottle during the war years.

Great discussion potential here.

[Michael A. Williams]

Thanks, Mark, for bringing up these points about Aleister Crowley. He was a more than competent chess player, but at a Masters level is his evaluation. His autobiography, "Confessions of Aleister Crowley," is more a hagiography. His level of braggadocio reaches epic proportions at points, but I found it quite amusing and overall enjoyable and informative.

Yes, he was an accomplished mountain climber, and this physical conditioning in his younger years held him in good stead for the rigors of his excessive hedonism later on. His mentor in mountaineering was Oscar Ekenstein, who also had a mystical system of his own, which Crowley learned from. Ekenstein recommend that Crowley study Raja Yoga for better mind control. He later did study Raja Yoga and pranayama in Southeast Asia and became adept at both. This was between the years 1900 - 1903.

You bring up good points about Ceremonial Magick. It is a misunderstood path within the Hermetic tradition. Not all Hermeticists are involved in it. I'm not involved in it, but know there are more groups doing it than the present Golden Dawn organizations.

As for the "Magickal War" between the Occult Britaish/Allies and the Occult Nazi's, you're right. It's something you won't find in standard history books. It was kept top secret for a long time. I've only run across references to it in articles here and there. The British Secret MI5 was involved in certain ways. Crowley seemed to be called upon only in an advisory capacity. Dennis Wheatly, the British Occult writer of fiction and non-fiction and good friend of Crowley, was one of the premier members. Ian Fleming, the James Bond author, was also on of it's supervisors.

What little I've gleamed, it reads almost like a Occult/Mystery/Thriller story. An interesting antedote emerges that an agent for MI5, Maxwell Knight, Flemings real life model for James Bond later on, became a student of Magick under Crowley, along with mutual friend, Dennis Wheatley. It's said Fleming used Crowley's Occult knowledge to advantage in MI5's secret war.

A side note: There was a group of British Ceremonial Magicians fighting the Nazi Magicians on the Astral. How much MI5 was involved, I'm not sure. Among the British Magicians was Dion Fortune. Evidently, due to the exhaustive nature of the battle, it wore her completely down, even though she had maintained good health throughout her life. She died an early death at age 54 shortly after WWII ended.

If anyone has any knowledge of books and articles about all this, please come forward and list them.

 

[Mark Worthington]

Thanks for the added details Michael.

I did not know of the 007 connection. Thats interesting.

[John Rau]

THE MAN WHO WAS M by Anthony Masters (info here http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/anthony-masters/man-who-was-m.htm ) is an enjoyable read concerning Maxwell Knight the model for Ian Flemings spymaster M in the Bond novels I enjoyed as a teen. I no longer own the book but did read it about a dozen or so years ago and found it rewarding. John le Carre, Fleming,  and interactions with occult world personalities - including - the infamous Crowley - enter the scene. After the spy work is done Knight retires into hosting a children's show, often with animals, parrots and such if I recall. It was said in the book by Masters that there was indeed experimentation with operations on the astral. Of course, in the 20th and now 21st Century, almost any author of occult subject matter and history is pressed to impress that much of what we read by any established "writer" needs to be taken, as they say, with grains of salt.

I have access to a not often seen offline astrology history book that tells a so-called factual story (heavy on story almost certainly) about the spy's mentioned above, as well as Crowley, working a con job on Rudolf Hess. I will try to locate the book and the title and author the next time I am in the correct book building and report back.

[Michael A. Williams]

Thanks, John, for the info on the book about Maxwell Knight. Having not read the book I can't comment too much about what portions of the book should be taken with "grain of salt." People adhering to the materialist paradigm would, of course, reject any presentations of the what is labeled the "astral." I, personally, do not reject such. But, as I said, not being familiar with the book, won't go further.

It was well known by MI5 in WWII that Rudolf Hess was intensely interested in aspects of the Occult, particularly Astrology. According to Peter Lavenda, who's researched this, that when Hess was captured by the British after crash landing his plane in Britain, Ian Fleming wanted Crowley, because of his extensive knowledge of the Occult, to debrief Hess and find out how much Occult knowledge he really had, among other things. This was nixed by Fleming's superiors.

Yes, there was some trickery to Hess involving his almost maniacal devotion to Astrology, and certainly Crowley served in a background advisory role. It's a little too complex to describe here.

[John Rau]

Michael,

Yes, Hess was indeed it seems, as you say - devoted to Astrology in almost certainly a "maniacal" fashion. It it said that after the Hess flight to Scotland, professional Astrologers in Germany had their libraries ransacked and even booksellers were stripped of astrology book stock. All I mean by "grains of salt" is simply that, when any so-called non-fiction biography or history is "written", including Crowley, especially when the history concerns famous personalities or war and conflict or esoteric subjects (including spy work), seldom, I feel, does exact truth make it to the written page; but this is only natural as all history is a story about past actions. In a particular astrology history book by Ellic Howe (published in England as Urania's Children), we find included no mention of MI5 even as it is quite detailed about WW2 astrological history. Howe is said to have worked for the Political Intelligence Department. True history is a hard find concerning most any subject, but I do enjoy reading it.

[Ish Leon]

I'm sure that most folks associated with either OTO or A:A would take great exception to thelema being called a religion; and I think you'd find that many would defend/rationalize Crowley's "instability" or "excess" as somehow integral to, or at least consistent with, the practice of thelema.

There is much for theosophists in Crowley's work; and I for one would not advocate keeping a distance from his writings.--Ish