Consequences of Reincarnation

[Joe Fulton]

There are many different views of Reincarnation and they all carry consequences, just as any statement that can be made.  This  discussion is a fork off of Jon Fergus' "Reincarnation" discussion.  In this case we would like to look at the consequences of the different ideas.

What difference does it make if we come back as a human, higher being or even a cockroach?  Why is it important?

Why should there be a relationship between consciousness and form?  Are we implying that somehow humans are privileged?  Why?

Give it some thought and we would love to see your answers.

[Capt. Anand Kumar]

The concept of reincarnation is based on the presumption that it is possible to predict the consequence of a cause using a fixed formula like the analogy of credit and debit of accountancy. It may be a great concept in keeping the flock under control by giving them the periodic statement of accounts showing ever accumulating credits. But can it be real?

[Ulia]

I wonder if it is possible to think about reincarnation in a vacuum, so to speak. I feel that reincarnation and karma are linked in such a way that one cannot be considered without the other. Perhaps in this case, I would say that it isn't important what form we incarnate into, as it is dictated by our karmic experiences, desires, unfinished business, etc. I feel that it is more about the process, than the end goal.  

 

[Joe Fulton]

In most parts of Hinduism and Buddhism, certainly the concepts are inseparable.  In the West, however there is no mention of moral consequences being the cause of reincarnation.  It just happens.  Perhaps that is the reason for everyone being Caesar or Cleopatra, or for that matter, Madame Blavatsky in a previous life.

[Jon Fergus]

They're all wrong. There can only be one Caeser, and since I was him in a past life, everyone else must be wrong ;-)

[Ulia]

I am new to Theosophy, but is not Karma its basic tenet? I read on Theosophical Society's page the following:

http://www.theosophical.org/about-us/theosophy/theosophy-what-is-it

"The cycle of reincarnation is ruled by the law of cause and effect. As Saint Paul says--whatever we sow, we will inevitably reap. This is the law of karma by which we weave our own destiny through the ages. It is the great hope for humanity, for it gives us the opportunity to create our future by what we do in the present.

[Jon Fergus]

Yes, for very many theosophists karma is one of their central tenets (I know it is for me), as is reincarnation. That said, theosophists are explorers always learning and questioning, so while for some karma is part of their basic worldview (perhaps a core part), it isn't necessarily so for all. It's one of the beautiful things here, that we have so many with such wide views. Even among those who believe in karma, the interpretations of what it means are vast :)

Same went for the ancients. Have a look at the links to ancient and modern writings on KARMA that we've been collecting. Lots of interesting ideas from various individuals and cultures.

[Jon Fergus]

Hi Ulia. Great reply.

I certainly see the two ideas as inherently linked, as two sides of the same coin. If reincarnation is a fact, then certainly there must be some law to guide the process and determine outcomes, thus karma. Reincarnation, to me, seems empty without it.

I feel that it is more about the process, than the end goal.

I second this. However, assuming there's a process, I would ask if it has a direction, or a 'progressive' nature? This seems to be at the core of the debate between reincarnation into animal forms or not. So, for me, reincarnation is inherently linked to karma, and both of these are inherently linked to evolution.

Any thoughts about how evolution might fit into the equation? Or if it does?

[Ulia]

Hi Jon,

I agree completely that both aspects are guided by the process of evolution. A mostly intuitive, and somewhat educated, guess is that we are finding our way back to the One; going through the different dimensions of experiences. I read in the Flower of Life volumes that we 'fell' from higher dimensions into denser ones, in order to experience being matter, while experiencing the 'pilgrimage' as discusses by H. Blavatsky in the Secret Doctrine. I resonate with these concepts. But, I have much to learn :)

I suppose this does inherently indicate that we do not go backward. However, I wonder if it is as straight forward as that. As we mentioned, Karma may dictate Reincarnation. So, who is to say that I don't have unfinished business from the time I was a cat :))  

[Jon Fergus]

That certainly resonated with me as well. The description of the pilgrimage from higher planes to lower, then back to higher (the downward and upward arcs) has played a key role in my attempts to understand.

I suppose this does inherently indicate that we do not go backward. However, I wonder if it is as straight forward as that.

This is one of my big questions as well (I have a feeling there's a lot more to it than I know).

At this point, I'm tending away from a strictly linear view of reincarnation (in terms of past and future), but there are still many questions I haven't been able to answer. Like: if the 'higher self' that incarnates is above the cause-effect flow of the physical plane, then is it free of that experience of linear time that we're all familiar with? And, if so, why would it be restricted to incarnating in serial order through that linear time? What couldn't my 'next life' be lived in 1700AD, for example?

On the other hand, if the 'higher self' (or reincarnating self) is restricted by the experience of time, as we are, is the experience different? Slower? Faster? Different direction even?

These kinds of questions often clash with my view of evolution and reincarnation as working together... so I'm still searching for puzzle pieces. At this point, I still see the higher self as progressing though, and doing so through progressive incarnations. Still 'feels' right to me.

P.S. perhaps your unfinished business as a cat is karmically linked to my unfinished business as a dog ;-)

[Ferran Sanz Orriols]

Hi, friends!

The most important consequence of reencarnation to me is the chance to learn.The duration of one body is not at all enough to attain wisdom, but if somewhere a Central Information Server  (words by our friend Capt. Anand) keeps the little I can manage to learn in each encarnation, there'll be a day that I'll become wise!!! And then, freedom!!!  (or at last the knowledge of the kind of business I'm in;-)

 I can't believe a cat's nervous system deserves ME downloaded into him. There is a relationship between form and capacity of expression, and conscience in its objective sense is the capacity of the nervous system to respond to stimulus from the world. In this sense,a wider range of stimulus that can be responded might be understood as a privilege.

 But, of course, true consciousness is not objective and needs no relationship with any form as it's eternal, everywhere, etc... so there seems to be no reason why should ever be a relationship between consciousness as it is and any form... is "to have fun" a reason why there should be anything?